jersey. that was a multiple staff church. at that time, the cause of the fact that i was one of the few people with this kind of training who stayed in the parish and didn't go into full-time teaching counseling, i was in demand, to be frank. there weren't many people like that terri is. >> why did you stay in the parish? >> because i wanted to be where the action was. that's where the action was. you could do so much from the parish. he didn't have power, but you had influence. and mayors of the cities, governors of the state, it wasn't because of any of us trying. natural things put me in situations to meet these people. i had the invitation to go down and meet the president of the united states one-time, mr. nixon. regardless of people's politics, that was quite moving. >> we are going to take a break and come back. we would talk about your book on forgiveness and more about his life. fascinating stuff. they with us. >> dr. chamber -- dr. james somerset is with us. i want to follow the thr